Hay in compost
I have a compost pile and my room-mate has 2 bunnies I was using the leftover hay and manure in my compost but I began noticing many weeds in my gardens and contributed to the hay so I stopped using it but I hate to see all that organic hay and manure go to waste should I use it in my compost ?
Catherine I do understand I am not speaking of "advertised" 1/2 life 0i am speaking scientifically proven 1/2 life. I do not nor have not ever worked for a chemical company. however I have been heavily involved in the outside testing of these chemicals. the issue is the people who write up the results are paid to do this even colleges, for the last 20 years there has been a movement to eliminate ALL chemicals and the testing that is done is way above and beyond what would be expected. and most pesticides that are now on the market (approved by the epa) have to have very short 1/2 lives. however the reporting by the media does not reflect this the media reflects what is politically correct. this is not to say that all chemicals are good neonicotinoids while deemed (and is) a save chemicals (made from nicotine) are 1 of the main unreported cause of the bee issue as they are systemic to the whole plant and kill any and all insects that feed on the plant bees included. but we are discussing herbicides and the 1/2 required by the fda precludes them being able to do what you are saying the chemicals used cannot work that way. also as you said more is not better actually this is more correct than you are saying more actually makes them work less effectively the same as over diluted, but any residual while traceable is not a viable as a plant killer at that time. and while people need to be aware of things that can cause them problems, the vehicle you have chosen as a "problem" isn't really a viable one to need to worry about here is the hypothesis for this; Glyphosate one of the main pesticides used in large scale farming has a 1/2 life of 60 days this is applied before a crop has germinated most hay crops are harvested 2-6 times in a growing season depending on where you are but only 1 application of glyphosate is used as it must be applied pre-germination and by the time it has lived out its 1/2 life the crop itself is thick enough to help control the weeds so 1-plant crop, 2- crop germinates, 3-apply herbicide, 4- crop grows and is harvested first harvest usually 50 to 60 days from germination, 5- crop cures, 6 - crop is baled and stored 7- crop is sold 90-180 days from germination 8- the hay is consumed by a animal, 9-the animal defecates and the resulting manure is collected for composting, 10- composting takes place (90- 180 days) so a solution of 2000 parts per million (ppm) the usual application in a field situation, in 60 days is 100ppm, in 120 days is 500ppm, in 180 days (6 months) is 250 ppm 240 days is 125 ppm 300 days is 75 ppm, 360 days is 37.5 parts per million or a ratio of 37.5-1000000. this is the minimum time before applying a compost from the sprayed crop. and non of this is accounting for rain, wind, heat and cold and those effects on the chemical breakdown in most testing a trace amount is 100 ppm or less and at this rate the herbicide cannot hurt a plant this would be tantamount to taking a eyedropper and dropping 37.5 drops into a 10 gallon sprayer do this with food coloring and see how that works and food coloring is 100 times more concentrated than glyphosate. and we use glyphosate all the time this is the active ingredient in round up and many other herbicides and it is safe after composting as it is not longer active
@Sia@South 47th actually this is not true as I explained in my post about the 1/2 life of chemicals. and yes there are many questios about this but as you would prefer to belive the media on this than facts go right ahead
@April E sorry luv I'm not one to ever trust in the media, never have. So that point is mute with me. I'd love to see your research you mentioned you had. Please do email. Until I actually see it, and read it, I'm afraid all of your points are without substance. In my humble opinion. We will agree, to respectfully disagree.
I would like to email you this research but as it belongs to texas a&m university I cannot do so all I can do is quote results until it is published
did I state that no I did not what I stated was that a herbicides would not be present in composted material in a amount to harm the plants the compost was used on please do not misconstrue my words or try to put words in my mouth many pesticides are safe many more have their beginings in the natural world and their components are remade in the lab case in point pyrethrums a very general insecticide this is naturally occurring in many species of chrysanthemum and had been reproduced in labs for mass productions and to say it is wrong to reproduce a chemical this way is like saying you should be producing penicillin from bread mold but no I do not like what they are doing with gmo food crops as the are working for bulk and disease resistance (among other and worse things) at the detriment to nutrition, health of the plants, taste, and stripping the soil. just because I point out a mistaken belief in the residual life of herbicides does not mean I support at will use of any pesticide. what it means is people need to go beyond the fear mongering that is in everything and get straight fact to support their beliefs I was quoting facts NOT beliefs. nor was I trying to be personally insulting. I am sorry for your inability to understand what I wrote
@April E I understand quite well what you were writing about. Kindly, do not assume you are so knowledgable that some of the rest of us are not capable of doing our own research and drawing are own conclusions. And this is not the first time I've had this "discussion" on this issue. I find it extraordinary that you can so easily discount the data gathered from other Universities. Btw, who's funding your research? That is a key question anymore on how the final data on this type of research is presented.
Bonnie, I apologize, we seemed to have highjacked your thread with this "discussion". Hopefully you got some information on your question before that happened.
this research is being funded by a group of 3 texas and Oklahoma farmers cooperatives as they have been worried about skewed results being presented by the chemical companies therefore there have been no pressures from big money to show results in favor of their chemicals some have been found to be safe while others will most likely be taken from use by the farmers in these coops and this information will be shared throught the country at regiona and national coop meetings we feel the research we are doing is some of the most important chemical research that has been done in the last century as the "powers that be" just want facts not well what ifs they want to know real dangers and not just hype on how well the chemical works.
@April E so it's not through Texas A&M? Its local Farmers Co-op? Ahhh. Well then if this is as you say: Quote: "some of the most important chemical research that has been done in the last century" End Quote. Surely you will be published. In what journal? And when will it be out for the public to digest? Thank you.
apparently you have no understanding of the word funding. nor how educational institutions get funding for experimentation and that many groups supply funds to educational institutions to research the information they need and as I stated before this information will be avalible at many agriculture coops in the near future as these are the people the research is being done for how they choose to publish the reports is up to them. and as you so nicely stated I suppose we will have to agree to disagree as you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force them to drink even when it is in their best interest to do so
@April E Nah, I'm just a woman who has written grants for various institutions, written and implemented various programs for large institutions, has a Masters Degree and was working on my PhD. I've been hired as a consultant more times than I'd care to remember. So yes dearie I can full well understand "Funding" and I full well understand Institutions of Higher learning and HOW that funding is gathered. Never ever assume you know a person here unless you have vetted them. BIG mistake with ME. Dear.
then why did you just make your previous comment, lmao, you are the one making assumptions, also the one being obtuse ad making specious comments for the sake of argument. I personally do not care in the least what you think or if your "believe" the research I was putting out there what I can due to over fear mongering. you are the one whom in multiple replies that have been insulting and belittling "deary", just because your beliefs differ from research being done. I do not condone the flagrant use of chemicals however there are safe ones to be used, and that is the end I and many others are working are working toward. however constant fear mongering and uninformed arguments does nothing to this end. I am so sorry, you have such a misunderstanding of what I have been saying that you feel the need to try and rectify this with your credentials. but are you working in agriculture research? is your degree in agriculture? do you do consultations out in the fields. do you know the effect of grasshoppers on a wheat crop? or what to plant as a cover crop to try and reduce weeds naturally and add nutrients to the soil? if not how can you even think to presume to talk down to me. who does, and if so how can you be so dense as to not know that there are many things going on behind the politics of chemicals, beyond just safety of the natural world.
@April E What are your credentials? I was not in any way attempting be be rude, only responding to the antagonistic and insulting 'tone' of your statements. I repeat, I respectfully agree to disagree with you and any others that tout Chemicals are good for the environment, soil, farming practices, gardening large scale or small, our water tables, oceans, rivers, streams, fish, animals and humans. Period. And please use spell check when making your statements, it will lend 'credibility' to what you have to say. Thank you I am now done.
see there you go again putting words into my mouth I did not say all chemicals were good I have even stated specific chemicals that are harmful. what I have been saying is that some chemicals by their make up are not harmful to the environment the word some and what started this is someone trying to say that a chemical that has a 1/2 life of only 60 days would be present in composted manure of the animal that ate in such a high content as to be able to kill the plants said compost was applied on. and as my statement were not directed at you until you CHOSE TO ENGAGE ME IN AN INSULTING MANNER, therefor being rude first, get over yourself. I am so sorry if I miss typed a letter but if that's all you have in your arsenal I feel for you. now you asked for my credentials I have a bsa entomology. I have a phd in horticulture. I have worked in this field for 24 years since completing my education in both research education and in the private sector. before school I grew up on a orange ranch in southern California and a working cattle and wheat ranch in Oklahoma so I do know a bit about what I am speaking of. now I do research consultations as a double check. this is to assure that the client are getting truthful results from their test as some perimeters can be exploited to give skewed results. the work I do is for people like farmers coops to make sure they are not being fed bs by chemical companies. when such things are found (which is quite often) I then work with reputable researchers to get at the truth of the issue. not all large farms are food factories many are still run my family that want the best for their familys and the people whom the sell to. but you keep your nasty little attitude and closed mind, to think that you haven't read or understood 1 thing that I have been saying or how this conversation started smh.
@Bonnie Bassett, you have nothing to be sorry about and for heaven sake don't let this little "tempest in a teapot" keep you from asking more questions on gardening issues or anything else for that matter. ^-^