Leaky gutter corners are present on almost every house and this almost always leads to soffit rot.

I'm convinced there is a flawed technique that is repeated with every installation.

I've seen enough to know these corners are prone to failure and cannot be remedied. I would like to see something like a contiguous, one-piece corner, say a foot long on either end. Does anyone know of anything like that on the market. I would like to recommend something that is not going to cause the same problem when a customer needs new gutters. Thanks, Charles

26 Comments Displaying 25 of 26 comments | See Previous

Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

Copy. The Depot, has it come to that? The joints can be managed easier when they are not at a corner, they just don't look quite as pretty, but I would rather not have wood replacement. Thanks much Wally.

on Sep 14, 2011 · Like 0
Wally Daly ,,Mastercarpen... Marietta, GA

man ive pulled them off and individualy caulked each nail ,,,as im installing the nail and or srew ,,pull it ,,silicone it ,,reinstall it,,,for the customers who thats allthey want is a band aid ,,,peace ,,charles,,,

on Sep 14, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

It's revolting the way the caulk is always gobbed on there, like the more the better, gaps and all, inhibiting water flow and not lasting more than 6 years, like the photo. And how do you replace the sealant; it's failed and it's stuck. People don't mind investing in the leaf guard gutter caps and then they still get leaky, rot causing gutter corners, because it seems that's all there is to offer. Sounds like we need a new patent. Did I mention I was frustrated. Surely someone in the world has a better system.

on Sep 14, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

I have a hate hate relationship with gutters myself. There are corners that extend as you describe. It is what comes from my lumberyard when I order gutter, but I don't know the maker. Will try to remember to ask.
But that is not a fix all solution. One of the problems is that the AL metal is subject to a lot of thermal movement and that stresses joints. I have tried a number of methods and all rely on ...»
caulk in the long run.
One of the bigger problems IO see with gutters is HOs who fail to clean them. I had a cal to inspect a house to find out why they had a lot of mildew growing in a closet and water leaking into the basement. As I walked up to the house, the lady came to the door to meet me. She invited me in saying, "Let me show you where the problem is"
I paused and said "I believe your closet is right over there behind this wall and the water is leaking into the basement right about over there, Right?"
Since I was still outside five feet from the house, she was in shock, thinking I had Superman's X-Ray vision. But it was simple. The roof style had almost no overhang and the gutter right there had so much debris, there were two foot tall trees growing n it. The siding was mossy from water overflowing it. And the downspout was knocked apart so water was dumping on the ground with enough force to make a divot hole in the ground to puddle water and lead it TO the foundation wall instead of away.

on Sep 14, 2011 · Like 0
Woodbridge Environmental ... Colonia, NJ

From my experience the joints on gutters leak because of poor craftsmanship. Oftentimes the installers do not allow enough overlap of the corner to the gutter. And do not properly place the rivets where they need to be to be most effective. Also using just plain silicon caulk will lead to failure quite fast. Use gutter cement, it comes in a small tube, not caulking gun. Its silver and it sticks to everything. It should be placed between the joint and then after its riveted along the ...»
entire interior joint as well as over each rivet head. Also the nails or system of nails used will determine the failure rate as well. Seamless gutters expand and contract quite a bit during hot and cold seasons. Installers must realize this and allow for this when installing. If its hot out, you need to allow for a bit of shrinkage on corners. If not as the main length cools down it will pull on the corner joints and cause early failure. Also fastening to near the corners will not allow them to flex out when the cold gutter heats up during the hot summer days. This expanding and contracting will cause failure of the seams and result in leaks.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

Well you are right about the defect in how they are made. But it can be solved although the solution is a bit messy if you aren't careful. I use polyurethane caulk to seal them inside and out. The bead can then be smoothed with a finger wetted with kerosene. Once it is dry it can be painted. If it is a copper gutter I guess you could only do the inside, but most of them are white aluminum so it works very well with the majority of gutters. That is the only permanent long term solution I ...»
know of. Even if you have the corners custom made you still have a 45 degree joint there that has to be made in some fashion. I is virtually impossible to have a metal to metal joint that is 100% water tight.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

Thanks much fellows; some good tips; still hoping against hope not to fix the problem but get rid of it. Nitcher, overtime we do develop only limited X-ray vision. Woodbridge, the sealant you mention is called Parabond: good stuff with aluminum; especially before an after it's assembled. Paul, if you will use a supersaturated soap solution (dishwashing) when tooling the polyurethane caulk with your finger, it will be easier on your system and work just as well.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

I checked out seamless corners and found some made out of copper only, so they are around, for a reason. Knowing metal moves and joints need to be sealed, there is more room for failure if the joints could be overlapped by a number of inches and filled with sealant first till it oozes out the joint. There is not an allowably large enough overlap surface to stay secure on a 45 degree joint. If the customer calls for estimates, perhaps she could put pressure on the gutter companies to ...»
find those one-unit corners as a qualifier to get the job. I've seen one-unit pvc corner boards for siding done for this same reason; why not gutters?
The saga continues.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

I've tried the soap solution and still have a problem keeping the material from sticking to me. Once it gets on you then you have a real problem forming the bead and keeping it clean. What I have found is that the kerosene thins the material on the surface slightly, keeps it from sticking to you altogether, if it does stick you can easily clean up because kerosene acts as a solvent to polyurethane, and the thinning action of the kerosene increases the adhesion of the polyurethane to what ...»
ever you are putting it on. That has been my experience with this material after many years of messing around with it.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 1
Wally Daly ,,Mastercarpen... Marietta, GA

it comes down to what ,woodbridge said (craftsmanship),,,because i can take chicken waste and make chiken salad,,,,with all that cheap product ,,,i hold guarantee for more than 3 years in certain applications ,,,on work ,,,manufacturer holds ,,their warranty,,,but i keep up with both

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Barry P Tecumseh, OK

I just had gutters put up. the guy has them 'made' right out of his trailer. made 90degree corners that DONT leak. Im in OK, and this guy is local, but Im sure the ability is out there. The stuff at lowes and home depot just dont work, unless you get a can of undercoating from your local auto parts place and spray the inside of the joints.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

Poly caulks cure from moisture and oxygen,so that is why wetting the finger with soapy water is not the best tooling lubricant for poly. The wet finger is adding a curin catalyst.
I don't care for the poly caulk here because it cures too hard, so much like silicone on metal joints, it will pop loose eventually. I use Geocel which has about 800% elongation (stretchability) and sticks very well to clean surfaces. When I can overlap the joint by 2-3 inches, a doubled bead ...»
of it makes fora pretty good compression gasket in concert with the pop rivets to maintain the connection while the Geocel caulk seals it.
But there is just no perfect answer to this.
IMO,the original photo here shows a butyl caulk which was the standard twenty years ago. Butyl is a PITA to use because it is stiff and it sticks to everything. But it remains flexible for several years before hardening to get brittle.

on Sep 15, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

The first picture above is a new post of a gutter that was installed 5 years ago without the corners leaking because it has a 'strap' design over the corner. The bad news is that this company, Gutter Guardian, does not use this system anymore. Go figure.
Nichter, what you say about the K-1 sounds reasonable, I've just had my hands in enough thinner to last a lifetime, perhaps I could use a nitrile glove. I like the Geocel tripolymer too.
Best, Charles

on Sep 16, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

I've recently started using the nitrile gloves more and more. I do a lot of epoxy work in restorations too, so that, and the acetone made me get in the habit.

on Sep 16, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

Have you used Abitron Wood Epox wood filler?

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 0
Woodbridge Environmental ... Colonia, NJ

The gutter caulk used in the photos was the wrong stuff as well as way to much was used.
Proper sealant use as well as the correct sealant is a must. Caulks regardless of what its used for must be applied correctly. Using more is not better.
Caulk must be able to stick to the material its supposed seal.
Caulk must be able to stretch and contract without loosing its adhesion to this material. ...»

Think of it this way. Take a fat rubber band, that is your sealant. If its about four inches long you can easily grab it, (adhesion) and stretch it in and out.
Now take that same rubber band and cut it so its only a 1/2" long. and try to stretch it. Its harder to grab correct? You have lost the the adhesion and cannot stretch it either as far or as much as before.
So if you glob on the sealant as seen on the photo, you in effect have removed the ability of the sealant to stretch because of the ratio of the thickness to the adhesion area. As the gutter in this case expands and contracts the sealant because of the way it was put on cannot stretch and it tears instead. The result is fine cracks in the surface that grow into leaks.
Using the correct amount of sealant along with the correct type and the correct construction practice that can flex properly with the movement, without all the extra exposed sealant will always work longer and better then putting as much as seen on the photo.
And as I said before it all boils down to craftsmanship.

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 0
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

All true. Every gutter I see looks almost exactly the same (except for the use of polyurethane sealant) and still leaks. I seems to me the problem is the design is prone to failure.
CP

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

Peace - yes and not.
Not for AL gutters.
We have a lot of 110 Year old wood gutters up this way and other things to restore with the wood Epoxys. I use the Minwax most, but also the System Three and West systems. Lot of boat yards around here on the coast, so those two latter are easier to get than Abatron.

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 0
Virginia Peary Stockbridge, GA

Have you seen the ad on TV for the black rubber spray? We are going to try it ... (hope it works)
If not then we will try silicon caulk, it might work and would be water proof too. What do you think?

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

The rubber spray may work, I have seen it but don't know anyone that has tried it yet. As for caulking use NP1 or polyurethane. Don't use silicone it won't last long and after it fails you won't be able to patch it easily with anything else because it won't stick very well to the silicone residue. I found all of that out the hard way. I have some gutters that I sealed with polyurethane caulk 17 years ago and they still don't leak, yet. I'm sure they will at some point as nothing lasts ...»
forever but I would never get that much time out of silicone in that type of situation.

on Sep 17, 2011 · Like 1
Woodbridge Environmental ... Colonia, NJ

Paul and Virginia, your both watching to much TV, all that stuff is, is undercoating for a car. Packaged as some new amazing product.
Do not use the stuff, it will make the inside of the gutter sticky and hold debris, also will not last at all.
Simply clean the seams, purchase gutter sealant. It comes in a tube much like toothpaste does. ...»
And apply a bead on it.
Ideally the seam should have been sealed before they applied the overlap joint, but the best you can now do is to just seal the edges.
Like there is no get rich program, there is no magical cure either. Any sealant you use will work for a short time, but using the stuff designed to fix a leak will last the longest.
As far as the design failure. The gutter joints that connect corners that rely on the gutter being mitered is junk, the only tried and true outside or inside corner is one that is factory done that the square cut end of the gutter is pushed into it and properly sealed. The ones that utilize the wrap over the miter sold in most big box stores allows for to much movement and will break just about any sealant job that you can throw at it.

on Sep 18, 2011 · Like 2
Peace Painting Co., Inc. Alpharetta, GA

Exactly Woodbridge. I will still keep looking for a gutter installation company that uses these pre-made corners. And Paul you are right about silicone. In almost every situation, it does everything it's not supposed to do and does not do anything it is supposed to do. It is one of the most mis-used products around; a regular bane of our existence.
CP

on Sep 18, 2011 · Like 1
Paul M Fairburn, GA

NP1 is not on TV. Polyurethane properly applied is superior to supposed gutter sealant. I have never had a failure with polyurethane caulk in 17 years. That is what I suggest that is what I use that is what works.

on Sep 19, 2011 · Like 0
Woodbridge Environmental ... Colonia, NJ

I did some research on the NP1 sealant,. It looks pretty much like the same stuff I use that comes in the smaller aluminum tubes but in caulking gun sizes. I too think that would work fine. But unless you do a lot of sealing of gutters, you are going to waste a lot as you do not need that much to properly seal a gutter joint.

on Sep 19, 2011 · Like 0
HandyANDY Home Renovation... Marietta, GA

You just have to spec that the installer use a separate corner piece...sadly, many residential clients fail to read the bid or look for the details....they just look at the price. We're almost always about twice the cost of most gutter installers but we use separate corner pieces and hang with hidden hanger screws AND a separate aluminum outlet cup at the downspout. You'd be amazed at how many installers just fold down the cuts from the gutter and secure the downspout to that! Beyond ...»
that, most corners, even the one pictured, have screws or rivets through the bottom to hold it together. It's just common sense not to put holes in the bottom of something design to conduct water.
I've used NP1 on roof flashings with good results but not on gutters yet. We used to use ParBond but my supplier went out of business and that seemed to hold up well. We use an elastromeric sealant on our roof repairs that I will have to try on some gutter corners to see if it holds before I recommend it....

on Sep 21, 2011 · Like 0