Antioch, CA on Sep 25, 2011

A week after installing verticle carbonized bamboo flooring in my homeI have cupping in most areas.

I had let the open boxes acclamate for 2 days before installing. I had cleaned and coated the cement floors with a Kilz sealer. I used an adhesive to put the flooring down. When finished it looked perfect. What happened and what do I do now. Could I just coat my floors with self leveling polyurethane? I don" think this type of flooring can be sanded to level.

25 Comments

James A Roswell, GA

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like moisture from the concrete. A vapor barrier helps. Can't be sanded.

on Sep 25, 2011 · Like 0
Micci S Roswell, GA

Before you do anything, was there a warranty? Did you do the install or hire someone? If you DIY'd it, did the co recommend a class? or just give you a handout? You don't want to do anything else that might void a warranty until you're sure.
I hate hearing stuff like this!
THEN: If you're left to your own devices (on your own, no other recourse) ...»

Have professionals come in to give est.s/advice and
decide if it's something you can do yourself ......
(The poly idea SOUNDS good..... but I don't think so...... experiment?!)
GOOD LUCK!

on Sep 25, 2011 · Like 0
Ted M Antioch, CA

I bought the materials and kept them in another room too long. Also the Kilz I coated the floor with was a sealer and vapor barrier. When I finished the cement floor preparation it was down and well dried for about a month. So by the time I installed the flooring any warranty had expired. So I guess I'm left with the painful process of getting one of those floor removing machines and ripping this one out. Or, like you say, it can't hurt now to experiment with the poly. Maybe multiple light layers. Thanks to both for your response.

on Sep 25, 2011 · Like 0
SawHorse.net Atlanta, GA

Is the concrete floor below grade? Most engineered floors are not recommended for below grade applications even with a proper vapor barrier. How bad is the cupping?

on Sep 25, 2011 · Like 0
Ted M Antioch, CA

I put my level across the floor on the worst area and I was just able to get a 5/64" drill bit between the level and the deepest part of the cupping. I put the bit to my tape measure and it looks like the 5/64" is just a hair over 1/16". My foundation is like a big patio. it looks like some is into the soil and some is above by a few inches. My house is 1277 sq.ft. (not including the garage).

on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
Micci S Roswell, GA

Ted, is there any way you could upload a picture?

on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
Ted M Antioch, CA

Micci, Since I responded to SawHorse I still had the Level on the floor and took a pic of the level with the 5/64" drill bit under it with a flashlight behind the level. You can imagine if you roll something or slide a chair the up and down jarations you get. You can really tell also just moving your feet. Lets see if I can get the pic up here.. Trying again...
on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
Micci S Roswell, GA

Ok.... how bad does this look when you are standing? I mean, you installed yourself so you're going to notice every little mistake or detail. I understand the disappointment, but at this point, it might be better to leave it alone?
It's a really pretty floor and I'm afraid you could make it worse by trying to make it perfect. It doesn't look that bad from your picture (I know, I know, it's not perfect) ...»

Try this, invite some friends over (friends that you haven't already told about the issue) and ask them what they think of your new floor. Maybe it doesn't "look" as bad as you think....

on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
SawHorse.net Atlanta, GA

I just looked you up on google maps. You have way too much water around you so it will be difficult to reduce the swelling. Perhaps you could put an area rug down so it is not as noticeable.

on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
Ted M Antioch, CA

Micci & SawHourse, I really appreciate your time & assistance. Maybe that is true. In my head it's like stepping on that small piece of rock (no big disturbance) but it's there and you feel it and 1st thing you do is scruff your foot to knock it free. If you didn't get it off you pick your foot up to look and see. A small thing but it's there. You remove it and you're happy. That is probably where I'm at. It's just enough to irritate me. It is quite noticable to my wife also. I have a ...»
couple of boxes of flooring left. I think I will see what it looks like to coat it with poly. Maybe do the light steel wool to ruff up the surface a little then as well maybe between coats. 2 or 3 medium coats with plenty of dry time between them. I do fear it will shine to much. I;ll try all this on some of the extra material I have. Thank you for your help.

on Sep 26, 2011 · Like 0
Metro Flooring & Design Oklahoma City, OK

Sorry to hear about your problem. Cupping is caused when the moisture content of the subfloor greatly exceeds the wood. Bamboo is extremely sensitive to moisture and humidity changes. Most manufacuters recommend at least 72 hours acclimation before installation. Did you do a slab moisture and a humidity test before installing your floor? I am not aware of any product made by Kiltz that is a suitable moisture barrier for flooring. What type of adhesive did you use. Moisture cured urethane ...»
is recommended for bamboo. If you used a cheaper resin based adhesive, the moisture in the adhesive could cause some cupping. Is the floor installed above grade or below? Bamboo should never be installed below grade such as a basement. Your salesperson should have gone over the pros and cons of bamboo with you. Using urethane won't work, it isn't designed to act as a leveler. Your only option is to live on it as long as you can put up with it then replace it. As fast as it cupped your moisture content is more than likely too high for engineered wood also. There are several products that will greatly reduce the moisture emissions from your slab such as Taylor MS Plus or IFS (Intelligent Flooring System), Bostix Best and Bostix MPR is also a great system but using a moisture cured urethane can be a nightmare if you don't have experience with it. You could go back with a wood look ceramic tile. Eleganza has a great selection. You may consider having an independent flooring inspector come out and evaluate the job. They should be able to let you know where the problems are coming from for about $200.

on Sep 29, 2011 · Like 0
KMS Woodworks Nederland, CO

Why people even consider using bamboo is beyond me....it is one of the most "green washed" products out there.
Aside from that the durability is not there...Installing any wood like flooring over concrete is the 3 strike out.
If it were my place I'd rip it all out and put in some nice tile. Done. ...»

some interesting reading on the "embodied" energy of bamboo...Just its transport exceeds that of Concrete Manufacture AND transport.
http://www.oriental-bamboo.co.za/reference/e...
A while back I also did a blog posting on the durability and green washing issues with bamboo.
http://kmswoodworks.wordpress.com/2010/04/18...

on Sep 29, 2011 · Like 1
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

It is not possible to create a good VB IMO with a paint on product. You have to have a good strong moisture stop placed under the concrete slab when it is poured and a crete crew who knows how to work to protect it while they work.
The other option is to place heavy 8mil plastic, then a subfloor on sleepers to adhere the engineered wood. Placing it on crete directly is a no-no. Even in a dry situation with ground water ...»
kept out by the moisture stop under the slab, the crete will continue to off-gas hundreds of gallons of water for the first year or two.
For others and for future reference, it does not matter if you acclimate for two days or two months. The time is unimportant, but the testing is. You acclimate until the flooring and the substrate have the same moisture readings

on Sep 29, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

Yep KMS is dead on. Wood over concrete is a big no no unless you have it professionally water proofed, checked for moisture content, and then covered with a pressure treated plywood to put the flooring on. I have seen this done commercially and it is a very extensive process that has to be strictly controlled or you will never be successful. Kilz won't get it.

on Sep 29, 2011 · Like 0
Idaho Home and Energy Boise, ID

@Paul....didn't you mean Nichter? Also, I think we are here to help, and encourage. If mistakes are made, the ones that made the mistake feel crummy enough without us telling them to feel bad about it, or condemn them for using products that we may have a negative opinion about. I get the "learn from other's mistakes" concept here, but I do think that sacrificing one DIY'er is not worth it. I think this network is supposed to be for support, ideas, and growth, it would be nice if ...»
everyone were able to be here, be comfortable, regardless of decisions or any other project variables. Be kind with your responses, it will build a stronger community...

on Sep 29, 2011 · Like 2
Metro Flooring & Design Oklahoma City, OK

It is interesting to hear about installation methods in other parts of the country. In oklahoma, 95% of what we sell and install is engineered which is glued directly to the concrete slab. Moisture testing is needed but if the content is high there are products available to reduce moisture emissions. Mapei Mapelastic is rolled on with a paint roller. As far as adhesives: Taylor MS Plus and IFS Adhesive (Intelligent Flooring System) are also great one step products. Bostix Best and MPR is a ...»
2 step process combining a moisture barrier and a moisture cured urethane. For 3/4" wood installations we primarily use 8 mil visqueen, cold process roof tar, 30lb roofing felt, 3/4 " plywood then nail the 3/4" wood to the plywood.

on Sep 30, 2011 · Like 0
Metro Flooring & Design Oklahoma City, OK

Ted... If you are going to try to recoat you will need a product called Tycote from Basic. It chemically abrades the aluminum oxide in your floor, then use Basic Streetshoe 275.

on Sep 30, 2011 · Like 0
KMS Woodworks Nederland, CO

I had no intent of Bashing Ted and his Bamboo...I'm more concerned about the person who sold it to him...Did they ask what he intended to install it on? or How?. Miss-information that early on in the process poses far more "damage" down the road. Its far far easier to "avoid" mistakes then it is to "clean up" after them.
Bamboo is relatively new and I have yet to see any "sand in place" versions. I personally ...»
have not re-finished bamboo...at least not yet. The first Floor I re-finished was back in '83 and any bamboo then was limited to chopsticks and tikki torch sticks.
Metro---do you have first hand experience with re-finishing Bamboo?

on Sep 30, 2011 · Like 0
Metro Flooring & Design Oklahoma City, OK

I'd be afraid to even try it. Too much liability. I know Home Depot and Lumber Liquidators have sold a bunch of it but it is too unstable of a product. Moisture and humidity are so critical with a bamboo floor. A friend of mine was a Beaulieu rep for Home Depot. He told me they stopped selling bamboo in our area because of all the installation issues. Unfortunately they do not train their salespeople so you wind up with uninformed customers installing it themselves.

on Sep 30, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

I have not worked with any bamboo, but have read a lot on it. That has scared me from trying to use it. One of the problems is that there are hundreds if not thousands of different varieties, all with differing characteristics. And since it is grass rather than a tree, other than the fact that it has cellulose, it is different from the woods I am familiar with. One article summed tings up by saying that the only way to be sure of getting a quality product for a floor is to buy from a ...»
flooring company you know and can trust with your bank account.
I haven't found that company yet

on Sep 30, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

@Idaho, no I meant just what I said. Metro proposed the best DIY solution as far as I can see here. Any solution I am aware of concerning concrete with wood on top was described in my post and I have only seen that sort of methodology employed in a commercial environment and most home owners are not willing to pay what it costs to achieve that level of security against moisture damage. No matter how this issue is addressed the flooring will have to be removed, the concrete vapor issue ...»
addressed, and then flooring reinstalled.
With that said if it was me I would put down tile. There are tiles made to look like wood available these days for just such an application. If you use tile you won't have to worry about any moisture problems and you won't have to take measures to keep the vapor level down coming from the concrete.

on Oct 01, 2011 · Like 1
Idaho Home and Energy Boise, ID

@Paul....you said KMS, I assumed you were referring to Nichter, not KMS, as he offered no solution....

on Oct 02, 2011 · Like 0
KMS Woodworks Nederland, CO

I've installed some wood flooring below grade over concrete...but not in direct contact with the concrete. Here the basement was bone dry and always has been. sleepers were installed on the slab with 1 1/2" of rigid foam..over this 6 mil VB then plywood. Hardwood installed on the ply. This gave some additional R-value to the floor a provided for a more traditional "nail down" type of install.

on Oct 02, 2011 · Like 0
Paul M Fairburn, GA

To point to a problem is in effect an offering of a solution as it gives one a direction of what not to do. Knowing what to do is just as important as knowing what not to do. A path can only be determined by seeing where to go and not to go at the same time.

on Oct 02, 2011 · Like 0
Nichter's Home Services C... Islesboro, ME

Agreed.
I have been participating in internet forums to learn myself and to help DIYs since about 1998.
One thing I always keep in mind is that for every person who asks a Q or presents a problem as a case study like this, there are five or ten others at least with a similar situation reading this who will learn from it.

on Oct 02, 2011 · Like 0