How to capture the water & move it away from the house? Water shoots ~18' away from the corner & over the gutter

Question

Issue is the roof is a Hip Roof (with about 7 peaks), water from one corner gushes and looks like a firehose is shooting it down.  Water at base of house gathers to about 10-12 inches.   One gutter person told me flashing on the extreior part of the gutter to funnel the water back to the gutter, vice overflowing past the gutter.  My concern is water getting under shingles that way.  Extra Downspout and wider gutters at that one area?

KMS Woodworks · Answer

I might look a little goofy but a tall piece of flashing installed vertically in the gutter should catch it.  The problem seems to be flow rate and velocity...more than actual gutter placement.

Jim Ginas · Answer

@KMS:  one gutter company at the Homearama last week said same, but you don;t think water that is caught there, will go under the shingles?

KMS Woodworks · Answer

if the flashing is located 'in' the gutter it is already past the shingles...once the flow hits the flashing it should fall into the gutter and be drained away.

HandyANDY - Handyman & All Repairs, LLC · Answer

I can't tell from the pics very well but it looks like you have a 2'x3' downspout to the left of the window...if so, change it to 3'x4' and you will see a noticeable difference.  You also can add a splash guard at the top of the gutter....move than likely most of the water is backing up in the gutter and 'new' water is running straight off the roof.  You should also check to see if there is kickout flashing where the gutter hits the brick...I don't see it there.

Jim Ginas · Answer

@ HandyAndy:  thank you... will do!  :  Kickout flashing- I'll also get that in place.  
 - much thanks!

Woodbridge Environmental Tiptophouse.com · Answer

kick out flashing details are a bit different on brick then when used with stucco or other types of sidings, but the concept is still there. Jim go to www.bia.org  with is the brick industry association that has tons of great information on just how the detail should look and how it performs when properly done.  The most important issue is proper wall to back of brick clearance and correct flashing details where the brick meets the roof.  Check ot the site and you will see exactly what I am talking about.  But Handy is on the right track with this, it just is very difficult to determine if what you have by the photos you provided.

Sharron W · Answer

We just had new gutters put up because we were having some other work done that required the old ones to come down and they were fairly 'dinged' up looking...and I was surprised to find that the most common gutter size now is not the 4' gutters that we had, but the five inch ...and at the front right over the entry door we have two valleys that come together and create the effect you are getting by the chimney, (what were the builders thinking???? right over the front door...REALLY?) anyway I digress...they put up some kind of 'overflow guard' that sticks up about 2 inches above the top of the gutters and it makes all the difference....

Jim Ginas · Answer

@ Sharon:  Thanks...  I have a contractor coming tomorrow to look at various 'Handyman' projects as well as give estimates for a couple major projects.  I'll inquire about the larger gutter spouts and 'Kickout / Overflow' flashing.

@ Woodbridge - Apprec the Brick site:  1) to understand the water overflow issue, and also as ONE of the projects that the Home Owners Asstn already approved is putting up a brick fence that separates back yard to front yard.. privacy from the pool/backyard and would like nice on the house  (all brick house)

Jim Ginas · Answer

Still curious what the pipe is for (with the green cover) - where would we expect that would lead to?  Crawl space and if so, WHY??

Nichter's Home Services Corp · Answer

A splash guard on that gutter will work to divert water into the gutter.
A big part of the problem is that the roof design sends a tremendous volumn of water down right there. Some of that could be diverted before it gets there with an L shaped inverted f;lashing up just under the corner above.

If there is no gutter on the second story, that roof is also adding to the volume this small gutter is being asked to handle. You could consider installing gutter above, and another downspout right there where the problem is

Also, clean those gutters out twice a year.

Jim Ginas · Answer

@ Nichters:  you hit it on the nose, the volume of water is tremendous during heavy storms.  There are no gutters above that point and all the water rushes down there. Normal rain, the water runs down and into the gutters, no probem, issue is when we get heavy rains and last few years, we've had unbelievable storms.  Water rushes so hard it is overshooting the gutters.   98% of the house had gutter guards and strangly at this side of the house, there weren't any, so last season, I cleaned the gutters out and put in the gutter guards.  (water was still rushing over shingles and worse as shingles had been so low, they hung OVER the gutters.  I am definitely asking the contractor to have the one downspout replaced with a larger one and install a new one in the corner, along with the kickout flashing for the corner and the thought about the additional piece to keep water back into the gutter.   I'll ask about the feasibility to install any gutters up above also.    *** Again, my concern about an piece of flashing that sits up a couple inches to divert the water back to the gutter is the volume of water is great, it will push under the shingles at that spot.  I have to take a video one night when it it doing it.    Thanks much!

Sharron W · Answer

The green 'top' is the debris guard for what appears to be a drainage system. I installed these all over our yard years ago because it was chronically 'swampy and spongy' but in order to work correctly they have to be buried on a grade progressively deeper as they move water away from the foundation. I believe I used 1' every 10 ft....which means my drains are about 2ft deep where there end, at the storm drain in the back corner of the yard. Also, I put window screen mesh over the buried end and then topped it with one of your 'green caps' because I was afraid of critters using the tubing as a direct route to my roof...But my gutters actually empty into the ones that comes up out of the ground and are attached with one of those accordian type downspout diverters. On top of the buried tubing, I again used window screens to keep my gravel and backfill dirt from going into the holes in the hose and stopping it up as I refilled the trenches. Also I noticed that when the small section of gutter next to the chimney starts overflowing, usually my downspout is clogged; so I have to run the hose down the downspout and unstop it, and then I put in the mesh eggs to stop debris from entering the downspout. Last time it was clogged, it was a robin that decided to build her nest on it and I had to rescue a baby out of the downspout! LOL so those Mesh eggs really ensure that won't happen again....

Jim Ginas · Answer

@ Sharron.   Thank you, lots of good info.  Gutters are cleaned and have gutter guards on them, but i have to check and confirm I see water coming out the end of teh down spout to ensure the part that buries into the ground at the bushes is not clogged!

Thank you

Woodbridge Environmental Tiptophouse.com · Answer

few comments, the green cap on the ground should be the clean out for the underground drain system.  Then vent it sometimes to allow for water that could collect on the surface a place to go.  you need to be careful when using any kind of flashing's on the gutter to catch the high velocity water flow off of the roof.  This can cause the water to flow back up and under the shingles causing water to get behind the gutter. 
Simply put if the water that is running down the roof is overflowing or missing the gutter it is undersized and you need to install larger gutters. 
Many higher end gutter guards are designed to throw the water further out from the house if the adhesion that normally pulls the water around the guard and into the gutter cannot accomplish that. This prevents a build up of water right against the house.

Jim Ginas · Answer

@Woodbridge:  thanks for the reply.   The additional flashing thought does make me concerned about the same...  water omving back under the shingles.   Contractor at the house last week said same also.       I'm investigating larger gutters and adding a downspout.
****  As it turns out, after Nichter asked about the gutters higher on the house  I checked and YES, in-fact, there are gutters that are higher and the issue is THAT gutter system dumps the water to the area I mentioned and thus the reason for the excessive water coming from teh one spot.

Sharron W · Answer

WOW! Nice call Nichter! So diverting the water from the higher gutter to a different spot?

Jim Ginas · Answer

Almost thinking that higher gutter spout should have some type of Downspout connection / hose that runs the water down and away from the house direct, so it is NOT dumping the water to the already existing gutter spouts thats handling what it is already.

Sharron W · Answer

Sounds like a plan....LOL

KMS Woodworks · Answer

This is actually pretty common with complex roof lines...the key to to scale up the lower you go as the water loading is accumulative.

Jim Ginas · Answer

KMS:  sorry - not sure what you mean:   '...scale up the lower you go..'     scale up, meaning larger gutters?

KMS Woodworks · Answer

Exactly...gutters and / or drain pipes... if you have 500 sq feet of upper roof...this could be drained with normal sized gutters...if that water is then directed to 500 more sq feet of roof below then the lower gutter should be sized as if it were serving 1000 sq ft.

For ease of install ( onsite fabrication with seamless) most installed will use just one size for all...if that is the case is needs to be the bigger version

Jim Ginas · Answer

ok,  thanks.   I'm curious to hear what the contractor I am getting an estimate for work tells me Thursday.   I looked yesterday in LOWES for some type of drainage pipe that the upper gutter could connect to to move the water from that level directly to the ground. Could be the easiest and least expensive solution.    Maybe from the downspout on the upper gutter, down to a lower downspout in the corner and then a downspout extension?

KMS Woodworks · Answer

one issue with really long downspout runs is they are harder to keep clear of debris...it your house is in the wide open this is less of an issue...if you have leaves and or pine needles this can be a pain in the butt.

Jim Ginas · Answer

ok,    leaves a little in the back of the house  (Woods behind me, but no big trees out front in my yard or any neighbors yard.)     BUT,   leaves could blow there from heavy winds and in time, clog the spout.  I currently have all gutters covered with Gutter covers.

Sharron W · Answer

I like the downspout eggs...no more robin stuck in the downspout....LOL

Jim Ginas · Answer

Had 2 contractors out to look at the gutter issue and they aren't interested in fixing this one problem, all they want to do is replace ALL gutters on the house. Hard to find a contractor to just FIX a problem and not try and sell a big project when only a small fix would do it!

Jim Ginas · Answer

found a company to put in a downspout from the top and extend it to a gutter below! the did upgrade all DOWNSPOUTS. Also added in these traps at the corners where water would overrun and that has been awesome since!

Zeebo · Answer

So glad you were able to resolve your problem without doing the entire houses gutters.

Chloe Crabtree · Answer

I think you need to use a D box draining to a french drain.

How to capture the water & move it away from the house? Water shoots ~18" away from the corner & over the gutter

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How to capture the water & move it away from the house? Water shoots ~18" away from the corner & over the gutter

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